(old) Raid plan

[Balshor]

The following raid plan has been superceded by more detailed and revised plans. Please visit the appropriate thread to read the current plans.

This is the first incarnation of this plan. As many additional details as possible will be added to this plan before the raid. Please provide any feedback below.

The first raid is scheduled for Sat, Feb 5, starting at 4pm est. This early start time is designed to help the east coast people stay the whole raid and allow the Europeans to at least participate in part of the initial mito clearing.

Primary goal: To test and practice our organization and mito-clearing strategies. Take out a few mitos.

Secondary goal: Clear all the mitos. Test various pre-strategies to see what might help us beat the mito respawn.

Note what is *not* in our goals...we do not expect to beat Hamidon on this raid. Remember, Hamidon is not a sprint. Hamidon is not even a marathon. Hamidon is like training up to run a marathon, and we is unreasonable to expect to succeed on our first attempt out on the field.

Heroes should gather in Eden before 4pm est on the raid day. I'll go over a brief recap of the plan at that point to make sure that everybody is on the same page. Please do not start the raid early...if you want to run around the Hive, go ahead, but come back out at 4pm for the briefing and to get organized.

Figure out what sort of team you will be on and try to form teams prior to 4pm. It should be obvious where the snipers go. I will need one or two melee groups to play outrider and protect the snipers from giant monsters, plus some herders to bring in the lower level mobs for fulcrum shifting. Most healers and all damage buffers belong with the snipers. Other defenders who also do not have a six-slotted snipe should join outrider teams. Any suicidal melee people should organize with the rads and stormies to coordinate melee/debuffing charges. It's fine to be on a somewhat mixed team as long as you're still capable of coordinating with the members of whichever group you belong to.

All heroes should be not-hidden so the coordinators can use the search window to track raid participants. This way, we can also identify latecomers and try to get them on a team. If you do arrive to the raid late and without a team (and I expect a number of heroes will), turn on your lft flag. Raid leaders will keep an eye on the lft list and find you a team. Every team is responsible for making sure its members are familiar with the raid plan, and this includes any heroes who may join your team later.

For mito clearing, we'll use a slight variation on the sniping strategy that has worked for us in the past. With Hami I3, we'll also need a healing umbrella of 8-10 healers to keep our snipers alive. A main assist will be designated, and everybody should add that hero to their friends list. Nobody should attack *anything* in the hive aside from the main assist's target. The only except to this will be outrider teams whose task is to clear the area of Giant Monsters.

In addition to the snipers, buffers, and outriders, we will also need some herders to bring in the level 42-45 DE minion/lts from the monster walls and controllers to hold them in place for the kineticists. *Nobody* should be attacking these low level DE.

We'll hopefully have some storm and radiation heroes crazy enough to try to land EF or FR on the current target, and we may even have some crazy melee people willing to provide cover and attempt to get a few swings in.

We should be able to take out the final few mitos at close range by having some regenners (or tanks with healing backup) each taunt a mito/Hami. This should allow the rest of the raid to use their full range of attacks, vastly increasing our damage output. Note that at this stage people should still be assisting off of our main assist so we stay on the same target.

For technical reasons, and because they will be largely useless in the raid, we ask that all heroes refrain from using unnecessary powers near the snipers. This includes all pets, bubbles, steamy mist, nightfall, invisibilities, armors, etc. If you want to use one of these powers (eg, throw out a phantom army to help you get in close to land EF), move away from the snipers before doing so. Additionally, prior to the raid, all heroes should don a costume with no cape or aura.

Once the mitos are cleared, here are some things that I feel are worth testing against Hami. The following tactics are things that I have gleaned from the boards and from demonstrations and conversations with other heroes here on Pinnacle.

Can the snipers alone beat Hami's regen? What about the melee alone? One of the more open strategies for beating the mito regen is to reduce Hami to almost 50%, have everybody but the snipers withdraw far out of range, then have the short range heroes reenter the fight after the respawn. This strategy requires that each of the two teams be able to beat (or at least keep up with) Hami's regen.

Can we affect Hami with anything other than damage? Every mob in the game has a magnitude to resist crowd control powers. (Witness the ability of stacked EMP blasts to take down the hydra's shield.) Do we have enough controllers to overcome this resistance? What about other crowd control powers or enduance drain? Can we leave a single mito at the end and stack enough confuses for it to start firing at Hami?

In the worst case scenario, can we take out all the mitos with a massive alpha strike? Basically, have all heroes close in on Hami as much as possible. Device blasters lay trip mines around Hami, and when the mitos respawn, every hero that has an AoE fires off their largest one. Everyone will probably still die, but if we can clear out the mitos this way, a single dark defender with Howling Twlight can quickly get the raid back on its feet.

This is primarily an informational raid -- if you have some idea you'd like to try to beat the mito respawn, post below so we can all discuss it.

[Balshor]

Just like to note that yes, I'm working on a more detailed (and hopefully clearer) final version of the raid plans. It will probably be posted Wednesday or Thursday -- unfortunately, RL concerns this week are preventing me from spending 24/7 on this raid like I want to....

If you have any ideas/suggestions, please feel free to comment. I've been perusing other Hami strategies and such, and I think I have a few worthwhile updates.

[staggerlee]

OK I have a question here may be a dumb one with something im missing. In past raids we 6 slot range snipe to get out of mitos range, with the new range of the mitos do we still need 6 slot range?
If we are using a healing umbrella can this be done with say 4 range and still be out of range that we dont have all the mitos firing on us.With 2 dam sos per sniper the mitos should go down faster and gives the option to range snipe hami to the 50% point to spawn mitos farther out of range.Ill give this a test to see how far out 4 snipe looks if there are 4 mitos firing on the group then I am guessing this will not work but since the mitos dont move we may be able to snipe at a closer range and have just the agroed mito and maybe 1 more on us.Im curious if this is an option all critisism is welcome:)

[Night0wl]

Just to add information to the pool of snipe shots and range. Mito's will aggro at 150 yards, (Or as little as 120, I am not 100% sure here) and have a firing range of approximitely 200 yards.

[typhoon]

Not sure if I will be any help! But I'm here to try! I should be home on sat by 4 if not i will for sure be there for the next run! I Have 2 diff toons that i can bring,

1 lvl 50 fire/storm Amos. Balshor i think we did a few TF's together.

1 lvl 50 BS/INV Typhoon.

Not sure what one would be better but can bring who ever you like.

[Balshor]

typhoon -- Glad to have you along, but your post really belongs in the "Introductions" thread in the "About this Group" section.

Staggerlee -- I'd like to stick with the 6 ranges initially. The idea is that by staying at our maximum range, we can avoid the incoming fire from most of the mitos. After we clear enough out from max range, we can move in closer, possibly even into point-blank range to make maximum use of our firepower.

[staggerlee]

I also am curious on how you want teams made up, will we have all snipers on same team or sprinkle in a few healers per snipe team. I know your busy with a more detailed raid plan, which im sure this will be in but figured I would throw it out there since this will allow all that check the boards to know who to talk to if they are looking for a team and for leaders to know who to invite.

Also here are some loose numbers on what we have so far, loose meaning not all that are registered have intros and that some have multiple toons they can bring. Also with any raid, we will have to see who all shows up


Blasters 13 Radiation bringers 8
Conts 8 FS bringers 5
Defs 11
Tanks 2
Scrapps 9


Remember loose numbers as of 2/1

[FashionSense]

From my limited experience on pre-I3 Pinnacle raids I want to suggest that herding little DE for fulcrum shift is a major inconvenience. Beyond the obvious problem of extracting the minions and herding them a long way across the map (and then watching some moron kill them), having FS fodder makes it very hard for the sniper group to move. Not being able to reposition the snipers limits potential tactics for avoiding the mito respawn - it might take several minutes to get new FS fodder into place to bring the damage back up.

So...is there an easier way to get everyone to the damage cap? If we have a respectable number of radiation users set up for perma-AM, that could get most of the way. If we indeed have 8 rads coming, that's +200% (AM is +25% damage, right?) - allowing 3 damage / 3 range slotting. It might be hard to get fortitude on everyone if the emps are busy with the healing umbrella.

I am a bit skeptical on whether slotting snipes with range is still useful. Now that 6 range doesn't avoid return fire, why not switch to 5? Or less? We only need to be outside the sight aggro range of mitos to avoid having half the bubble shooting back. If the debuffers are going to be inside the healing umbrella, the snipers will have to be closer than 6-range distance. On top of that, the rads have to rush in closer to cast EF, so we may have half the mitos shooting at them anyway.

For clearing mitos, it might be more efficient to have everyone in one tight group quite close to the bubble (maybe even within base snipe range). Having a couple of phase shifters bouncing around and hopefully some illusion decoys dropped near Hamidon should reduce the number of mitos actually shooting at the raid force to a manageable number - then we can have tanks in the healing umbrella jump out and taunt one mito each. There are 24 yellow or blue mitos...8 tanks or scrappers with taunt in the healing umbrella could hold aggro on a third of the bubble and survive.

I have some thoughts on handling the mito respawn, but this post is long enough already.

[Balshor]

I fully expect that we'll be able to move well within the 6-SOed sniper range underneath the healing umbrella. Hopefully we'll be able to move inside the bubble itself and be able to use a full complement of attacks on the mitos. However, remember that this is a test raid where we really don't know what will work and what won't. I'd like to have the snipes set up for long range attacks in the event that we need them. I figure we'll start at maximum range, get the healers going, and slowly move in towards Hami, trying to keep the group as close together as possible. How well moving the group goes will dictate whether we can get in closer or not.

I somewhat agree on the FS mobs...if we're able to move in close, they probably won't be necessary. If not, however, we can expect to be stationary and can expect to want every damage buff we can get. Again, this falls under the category of "a tactic I'd like to be able to use if necessary." If FS ends up being unnecessary, we can reallocate the kineticists to speed boost duty and put the herders on either the melee or outrider teams.

Since most of us have never been on an I3 Hami raid, we should try to be prepared for anything -- after all, at this point, any discussion of what will or will not work is mostly academic.

[Night0wl]

I would like to add to the concern over range sniping vs. damage slotted. With the new range of the Mito's and there bully nature it will be difficult to utilize the range to maximum extent.

That is keeping out of range from the rear Mito's. How ever I fear that to maximize the purpose of the range benefit we would need to relocate fairly often to maintain the selective killing order.

However, if we did take the alternative and walk into the barrel of a gun, so to speak. Perhaps even getting within standard blaster range opening up the whole arsenal of powers. If we do bypass range and utilize damage, while also advancing, once (And if it's possible) we are in standard blaster range the damage becomes exponential.

Movement then becomes more difficult though, under the watchful gaze of 33 gelatinous organisms. Having to be certain to pick up the dead and keep every one alive.

These are only thoughts, concerns, and ideas for future raids. Raid1 has a plan.

[typhoon]

After thanking about it, I think i would like to use Typhoon. I can "herd" with im if needed to get the monsters away or in close! I will have a Fire/Rad in the zone loged out for fast log in if needed/ as with a ice/emp cont. The Ice Emp cont might even be loged in with me if he is home that night. I could also set her in the snipers on auto heals, and just leave her be. she has Tp plus res.


Jacob

[Reactor]

typhoon said:

After thanking about it, I think i would like to use Typhoon. I can "herd" with im if needed to get the monsters away or in close! I will have a Fire/Rad in the zone loged out for fast log in if needed/ as with a ice/emp cont. The Ice Emp cont might even be loged in with me if he is home that night. I could also set her in the snipers on auto heals, and just leave her be. she has Tp plus res.


Jacob

I think we'll need the /rad for heals and buffs more than another Melee guy out there, seems we'll have an abundance of tanks and scrappers to watch our back.

But that's just my $0.04

[Balshor]

Reactor said:

But that's just my $0.04

Your $0.04? Hmm...trying to make your opinion worth twice as much as everybody else's, eh?

But, I agree with Reactor in that a rad is probably more useful than another melee. Look at it this way: if your EF increases damage output only by 10% of base (in reality, it should be more), it only takes 10 heroes to come out ahead. The more heroes, the bigger the overall damage boost.

I'll even throw that opinion in for free, so now we're back to the usual average price per opinion on these boards.

[metalo]

So does anyone know how much of def that hami has? How many radition controllers does it take to get to the center of a hami pop? I mean debuff a hami pop that is, to 0?
I'm going to assume that hami has what say 400% resistance
if one ef, drops only 10% we would need 40 people to get him to 0%?

Does anyone have numbers on what our DPS needs to be to beat his regen rate?

[FashionSense]

Hamidon has 99% resistance to all damage types. It's likely this now includes toxic.

Quite a while ago a dev posted on the forums saying that enemies with resistance to something will usually also resist debuffs to some degree (they were talking in general, not about Hamidon). So resistance debuffs are not like accuracy debuffs where there's a cap and you can have extra over the cap - Hamidon's resistance is only 99%, but each debuff knocks off less than it would against an ordinary mob. That seems to agree with my experience, although I'm not the most qualified person to comment.

As for Hamidon's regen, there is a popular theory that it scales up per hero/pet in the goo. Since it's kind of hard to measure regen I have no idea if this is true or how much regen we're talking about. The figure that I have seen quoted is 2400 hp per 20 seconds. Some very large open raids have totally failed to beat this regen rate.